GroomPod 487 A conversation with Michelle Knowles transcript
Susy the Groomer and Producer (00:09)
Hello, groomers, and welcome to episode four eighty-seven of the groom pod. Recorded on gee, what's today? I never even looked.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (00:18)
August twenty-third, twenty twenty-six in well all over the place. And I'm joined by my very best buddy, Barbara Bird, and also our special guest, Michelle Knowles. This is pretty exciting. And we're gonna jump right into the interview. So Michelle, you are well known on the internet.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (00:37)
Well known through the grooming industries, well known through the teaching and skin and coat kind of areas. And
Michelle Knowles (00:43)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (00:44)
tell us a little bit about how you got started grooming and where you're grooming now
Michelle Knowles (00:48)
Okay, I started way back in the caveman days. And
Susy the Groomer and Producer (00:54)
Remember we have the
Susy the Groomer and Producer (00:55)
original caveman here.
Michelle Knowles (00:59)
We knew, we knew.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (01:00)
Yeah.
Michelle Knowles (01:02)
I I wanted to be a veterinarian, so I started working at the Indianapolis Zoo. they want you to work with animals while you're in pre vet. And I also got a research job, cleaning rat teeth for research. And and not cleaning them, but I mean they were testing toothpaste.
Michelle Knowles (01:23)
And so I was working them, going to s going to school, doing the things, and for six weeks I of course loved these rats and named them and did all kinds of things and I came in on the last day and they were spread out, their skulls were cleaned and spread out on a tray. And I said, yeah, that's right. No I'm not gonna be a veterinarian. You straighten that back there.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (01:46)
Ugh, yeah.
Michelle Knowles (01:48)
And so I didn't know what I was gonna do at the time. I was stealing stray dogs off the street and grooming them and finding them homes. I thought, well I'll do this, right? So
Susy the Groomer and Producer (01:59)
Ha ha ha.
Michelle Knowles (01:59)
I said So I started grooming them. my very first job was a mobile van with a company called Love. So it was Love Mobile Grooming. These were the most decrepit
Michelle Knowles (02:14)
horrible dirty vans you would ever care to see. If you if somebody walked in on them, they would have flagged them and took them, towed them to the tow yard. They were horrible. I did that for two weeks. Then I was done. Then I st then I started looking for salons and I started salon grooming, which I really love. I know people are very successful and they love mobile, but it just it never sinked with me, so I didn't like it.
Michelle Knowles (02:42)
So that's how I started.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (02:45)
are you still grooming physically every day?
Michelle Knowles (02:48)
I am not grooming. I in July I retired from salon grooming and I have exactly three clients left that I am still
Michelle Knowles (02:59)
continuing to groom until they pass. Oakley yesterday was one of them. He's a old wirefox terrier. He's been following me his entire life since animal health services days. So it was it he's still with me. He's still, you know, standing up straight for his groom, so we're gonna continue grooming him.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (03:20)
man, see I contend that most of us never actually really fully retire. We all groom some neighbor dogs or your own dogs. Barbara does her dogs. I just gonna keep going until I can't anymore because if I don't have a purpose it's I get into trouble. I find myself in bad positions. So I'll just keep grooming away the way I do.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (03:42)
So when did you get interested in holistic grooming
Michelle Knowles (03:46)
from the very beginning. I've always been very in tune with the animals, especially since working at the zoo. the zoo is near and dear to my heart, even though I wasn't there for as long as some people are or should be or want to. I just I needed money, you know, when you're young and you have children, you gotta have that paycheck.
Michelle Knowles (04:04)
it really makes you understand that, you know, we are caring for, ev especially at the zoo, each exhibit, each animal has a a normal
Michelle Knowles (04:14)
space of miles in the wild. And here we have this little patch for them to live in. So it has to be kept clean. You have to enrich them in such a way that their brain is fulfilled or they fail. and that's a big money prospect. You know, they have a lot of money invested in that animal. So right at the very beginning I understood that this endeavor was it had to be more than just making pretty or picking up their poop or or doing whatever.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (04:41)
what do you think is the biggest misunderstanding that groomers and owners have about holistic grooming?
Michelle Knowles (04:48)
They think it is just scent-free shampoo or you know a candle or some maybe some music. holistic means the whole dog. not only just the dog the the environment in which the dog lives, the food, the breed of the dog, does the dog have children? The whole picture of what affects that dog is holistic.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (05:16)
how do you incorporate that into your grooming life?
Michelle Knowles (05:19)
I don't really group anymore, but I incorporate it into my school.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (05:21)
If you
Michelle Knowles (05:22)
Yeah, absolutely. by absolutely telling people how that works, how it goes, what to look for, all the things that matter. And I think the first tool that anybody should look at and develop is y themselves.
Michelle Knowles (05:37)
it's how I love that. I love every mo every moment of it. Every moment of it. Hello. But I mean you are
Susy the Groomer and Producer (05:46)
He's like, what are you doing, Mom?
Michelle Knowles (05:47)
the you're the one that's that begins with your environment. You fill your environment with calm, you fill it with comfort or trust, and then you start to learn those tools. So I think that's probably the biggest thing that you have to do.
Michelle Knowles (06:05)
to do this successfully and to love it and keep going until you can't do it anymore.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (06:11)
If you could wave a magic wand, and we all wish we had a magic wand. As a matter of fact, some of our owners think we do have a magic wand, but the truth is we
Michelle Knowles (06:18)
Truthfully.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (06:19)
don't. But if we waved a magic wand and you could change one thing in the grooming industry, what would that be?
Michelle Knowles (06:27)
That everybody was nice.
Michelle Knowles (06:32)
Is that
Barbara (06:33)
yes.
Michelle Knowles (06:37)
at least nice to each other collectively.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (06:40)
It's
Susy the Groomer and Producer (06:41)
it's fascinating to me because we have every shape and size and age and variety of human involved with grooming. Why can't we be nice to each other? What's the problem? Why g just be the bigger person. If we're all the bigger person, then we're nice. That's how it works. Be polite.
Michelle Knowles (07:02)
I
Michelle Knowles (07:02)
think a lot of it has to do with insecurity within the grooming industry. There's so much imposter syndrome. There's so much feeling of well I'm not good enough or I'm not at that level. Guess what? There's no level. There are people who choose to do show grooming. There are people who choose to just work in shelters. There's people who choose to just do shavedowns. There's no level. It's just what you choose and what you're comfortable with. And there's no reason to say, Well, I'm not really a groomer. I've only been grooming six years. I'm like
Michelle Knowles (07:32)
If you groom one paw, you're a groomer. It starts just like that because they're like Fritos, not only 'cause they smell like corn chips, but because you can't just do one.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (07:43)
Ha ha ha.
Barbara (07:45)
Thank
Susy the Groomer and Producer (07:46)
It's so true. It's so true. so we are kind of a science-based podcast. We're even
Michelle Knowles (07:54)
Mm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (07:54)
more so now as we refocus ourselves, being video, having the opportunity to share screens and things like that. So
Michelle Knowles (08:01)
Mm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (08:02)
tell me what are your feelings about this resistance to antibiotics and about things like groomers using chlorhexidine, like all the time, everywhere.
Michelle Knowles (08:13)
Yeah, yeah. I have an issue. Well, okay, let's just start this way. There is nothing wrong with using chlorhexidine. There's you know, a million ways you can use it, except it's not a pre treatment for bacteria. It is to treat a bacteria and it has a little bit of antifungal in it as well. in the the properties anyway. But
Michelle Knowles (08:43)
The antibiotics are probably the most misused things since pharmacology got started. they're really overdone. Everybody wants to treat allergies or unknown symptoms. we'll just throw some antibiotics at it. And everybody knows everybody knows by now, that you can absolutely make it useless by overuse of it.
Michelle Knowles (09:04)
And I think alter alternative things that you can use not only are ozone, but the herbal pharmacology that is available to us. after just a maybe a year of study, you can absolutely start incorporating that into your grooming.
Michelle Knowles (09:19)
And to yourself, doctor yourself, doctor your people, your family or whatever. And it's very effective and it has been shown through study that it is effective. So it's not just a woo woo science, it's absolute medicinal health.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (09:33)
How would you use ozonated oil in a grooming practice? we talked about it last week. Barbara kinda taught us what it was and I'd never heard of it or anything and she
Michelle Knowles (09:42)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (09:42)
talked about the history of it. But I was curious how would you use it to and what would you use it on and and that kind of stuff?
Michelle Knowles (09:50)
Mm. Well I used to be a heavy user of ozonated oil. until I found herbs and now I use a lot of herbs, but I would still use it a pinch. If I didn't have anything else and it was on the shelf, I would absolutely use it. You can use it topically, like directly on a spot or whatever, but
Michelle Knowles (10:07)
it is good also if you put it in the conditioner and mix it up in there and then distribute it among all over the dog. That way you get the benefit of it. 'Cause it's kinda like, for lack of a better term, a time release of it when it's in an oil. let it sit there, you know, massage it as you're speaking to the dog, la la la. And then you could rinse off that conditioner with that oil in it. and it works like that as well, especially for if they have a an unknown kind of just a malaise
Michelle Knowles (10:35)
About their skin.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (10:37)
Barbara, could we put it in the recirculator?
Barbara (10:39)
Well, we could certainly try. You know how we would tell is what if we could smell it on the dog after we used it. That would tell.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (10:52)
Okay.
Barbara (10:53)
I mean, the odor gives it away. And that's a good thing and a bad thing. The bad thing is that it's not exactly a pleasant odor. It isn't an
Michelle Knowles (11:02)
I like it.
Barbara (11:04)
it's like kind of something's wrong here, kind of an odor,
Michelle Knowles (11:08)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (11:09)
but it's not foul. It's just weird. It's just like a little unearthly yeah, it smells more chemical than it is.
Barbara (11:19)
it's funny, you know, I took Michelle's,
Barbara (11:22)
weekend class in Tucson one year and I was lucky to attend and we were introduced to ozonated oils I think it was olive oil and or
Michelle Knowles (11:37)
Pro probably or avocado.
Barbara (11:39)
yeah something like that and I took it and put it aside and I did I did
Barbara (11:50)
try to use it a little bit, I thought it was for me at the moment, it was a little bit too woo-woo. This
Barbara (12:01)
is too woo-woo. I didn't have a foundation on which to place it in my mind. and I doubted it. And I want to apologize to Michelle for that.
Michelle Knowles (12:16)
Why?
Susy the Groomer and Producer (12:17)
Ha ha.
Michelle Knowles (12:18)
I'm just
Barbara (12:18)
I'm sorry.
Michelle Knowles (12:19)
giving you the opportunity. You use it how you want to use it.
Barbara (12:22)
But you gave me
Barbara (12:22)
the opportunity, right? And you gave me the exposure and I knew that it had benefits. But I didn't really know how to use it. so what has happened to me, Michelle, is that I've been living in South Carolina for a couple of years and for the last year and more,
Barbara (12:47)
I've been struggling with my two Maltese having yeasty skin, just
Michelle Knowles (12:52)
Mm.
Barbara (12:53)
popping up, not so
Michelle Knowles (12:55)
Mm.
Barbara (12:55)
much the typical faint in ears, but on their body. And
Michelle Knowles (13:01)
Mm.
Barbara (13:01)
I took them to the vet and it cost me like $700 to come home.
Barbara (13:15)
with antibiotics and apiquil and I was so turned off by that. mean of course the apiquil and antibiotics in a couple of weeks it was like it's cleared up good we're done well now a week later it starts coming back and I think you
Michelle Knowles (13:37)
Yeah, definitely.
Barbara (13:38)
know that
Barbara (13:39)
I'm not going to do this $700 every once a month with these guys. I have $50 bottle of shampoo that I could have gotten off Amazon for 35.
Michelle Knowles (13:54)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (13:54)
And I supposed to bathe them three times a week. And I, know, like that seems like a lot of bathing to me.
Barbara (14:06)
and nothing topical that I could use in between and just a kind of brush off diagnosis of it's probably allergies because we've been seeing a lot of that lately. know, yeah,
Michelle Knowles (14:21)
What does that even mean?
Barbara (14:23)
and this is
Barbara (14:25)
Greenville, South Carolina established young, barely big practice female.
Michelle Knowles (14:33)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (14:33)
the other thing that happened with me at this vet is that they put me in a room and instead of the vet coming into the room and we chat a little bit about the dog and she examines, well, I hold it and this kind of stuff.
Barbara (14:50)
They took the dog into the back room where
Michelle Knowles (14:55)
Mm.
Barbara (14:55)
things happened. And then they come in and talk to me. Well, it's going to need a shot for this, and it's going to need this for that. the last minute, the vet comes in and shakes my hand, and nice to meet you. And know, that.
Michelle Knowles (15:10)
Wow. Yeah, they're we're getting
Susy the Groomer and Producer (15:11)
That's
Michelle Knowles (15:13)
further and further away from that connection.
Barbara (15:16)
worse than my worst expectation. And it was a reasonably young female veterinarian. was excited about that, but just turn off. and of course the people who are helping me here, I have this remarkable situation.
Barbara (15:43)
They didn't understand why I wouldn't go back there, but I would not go back there.
Michelle Knowles (15:49)
Yeah.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (15:51)
I find the
Susy the Groomer and Producer (15:52)
old the old vets. I find the oldest vet I can find and the smallest practice I can find because I know that that guy's coming in the room and it's almost
Michelle Knowles (16:00)
Ha ha.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (16:01)
always a dude because the old guys were dudes. The women have come along later, but I want somebody who's squished a thousand lumps, who's felt
Michelle Knowles (16:10)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (16:11)
them and has good lump hands, who has
Michelle Knowles (16:13)
Yeah.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (16:13)
common sense. And these young vets, they go straight to diagnostics, which is super expensive, and then they look on their computer for what?
Susy the Groomer and Producer (16:21)
They should tell us. And I don't
Michelle Knowles (16:22)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (16:23)
love vet practices or even human medicine right now. I'm kind of off of both of them.
Michelle Knowles (16:29)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (16:30)
of
Barbara (16:30)
ID-
Michelle Knowles (16:30)
Yeah, the funny
Michelle Knowles (16:31)
thing is I like those doctors too, and then they turn around and go, Well if you take a little bit of salt and put it on an onion, you're like, yeah, that's me right then
Susy the Groomer and Producer (16:39)
You gotta
Barbara (16:39)
Thank
Susy the Groomer and Producer (16:40)
you just gotta roll with that stuff, go, Okay, I had one I had one horse vet that gave me an aloe vera plant.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (16:47)
It's like here. I mean I was a I'm like great I he was an old hippie. I loved him dearly, one of the greatest guys. He was like seventy-eight, still practicing. Came out and looked at my horse. Here, rub this on it, give you this. I'm gonna call this in and yeah, those guys are great, but they do have that little side effect.
Barbara (17:06)
Well,
Barbara (17:08)
yeah, so anyway,
Barbara (17:10)
I had already tried Dead Sea Salt and you know, anything else I could think of and nothing was making a difference and I brought him back and and stopped using the apiquil. I mean, and my caretaker guide
Barbara (17:30)
does not understand why I would have apiquil in there and not use it. I said
Michelle Knowles (17:36)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (17:36)
because it's just gonna run out and then the whole thing's gonna come back. I want
Michelle Knowles (17:41)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (17:42)
itching because I want the itching to stop because the cause isn't causing it to itch anymore. So
Michelle Knowles (17:50)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (17:50)
you know things went on and finally I just
Barbara (17:55)
remembered ozonated oils and I read
Michelle Knowles (17:58)
Mm.
Barbara (17:59)
up a little bit. you know like I've been doing a lot of scientific reading since I retired and moved here because now I have the
Michelle Knowles (18:11)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (18:11)
time to really try to digest it and
Michelle Knowles (18:16)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (18:16)
so I've become even more science minded.
Barbara (18:22)
than before.
Barbara (18:23)
I found out that, you know, there's a lot of scientific basis established that ozonated oils work.
Barbara (18:34)
topic.
Michelle Knowles (18:35)
They actually
Michelle Knowles (18:35)
work better than all the other kinds.
Barbara (18:38)
And
Barbara (18:40)
so I bought a little jar of ozonated sunflower oil, 25 bucks
Michelle Knowles (18:46)
Perfect.
Barbara (18:47)
off of Amazon. What I don't like is that it's hard to know what's good,
Michelle Knowles (18:56)
the best ozonated oil you can find is pro I have found anyway, in my opinion, is called PURO03.com, pure o three dot com. and then they have
Michelle Knowles (19:09)
all kinds of oils that are ozonated. And I differentiate between an oil and just the oil with a little bit of ozone in it as well. When you ozonate an oil for the correct amount of time for it to be efficacious or over a period of time, it becomes like a gel. Yeah.
Barbara (19:25)
take out. Yeah, becomes a gel
Barbara (19:30)
and there is measures of saturation,
Michelle Knowles (19:37)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (19:38)
measures of...
Michelle Knowles (19:41)
Peroxide. Mm. Mm.
Barbara (19:42)
yeah peroxide and the
Barbara (19:45)
ozonoids etc and there
Michelle Knowles (19:46)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Barbara (19:48)
but there's very few vendors of ozonated oils that are really sharing all that information and so
Michelle Knowles (19:56)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (19:57)
i picked one that i thought i'm gonna go find it and i'll tell you what i ended up using
Michelle Knowles (20:04)
Okay.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (20:04)
Is it shelf
Susy the Groomer and Producer (20:05)
stable? Like how long does it is?
Michelle Knowles (20:07)
Yes. Yes, it
Michelle Knowles (20:09)
is shelf stable for quite a long time. It depends on where you get it from, of course, and how you're storing it, as always. I keep
Susy the Groomer and Producer (20:17)
And do you have
Susy the Groomer and Producer (20:18)
a favorite source? I mean not not pure O three, but I mean do you prefer sunflower, safflower, argon, avocado?
Michelle Knowles (20:26)
I prefer avocado.
Michelle Knowles (20:27)
I prefer sunflower is okay.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (20:30)
Okay.
Michelle Knowles (20:30)
they handle differently in different storage circumstances.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (20:34)
Okay.
Michelle Knowles (20:34)
the a caveat of that would be that I did give some to one of my colleagues that is heavily pierced, and
Barbara (20:42)
HMMMM
Michelle Knowles (20:43)
she it came to find out she was allergic to it because it was just too powerful. So there is there is something that you need to at least do a spot test or whatever. What do we have
Susy the Groomer and Producer (20:51)
Okay.
Michelle Knowles (20:52)
here, Barbara?
Barbara (20:53)
Pure O!
Susy the Groomer and Producer (20:54)
Pure O three.
Barbara (20:56)
Pure O! So, yeah.
Michelle Knowles (20:57)
Yeah.
Barbara (21:01)
No wonder it worked. It worked well.
Michelle Knowles (21:03)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (21:04)
I still, I have one dog that was the worst off, who's clear, and another one who's not yet clear.
Michelle Knowles (21:16)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (21:16)
I need to apply it every couple of days and I
Barbara (21:20)
don't I'm not good about that sulfur
Michelle Knowles (21:22)
Mm-hmm. Have you tried sulfur?
Barbara (21:27)
no sulfur is
Michelle Knowles (21:29)
Mm-hmm. That's also
Michelle Knowles (21:30)
something as an additive. sulfur will change your life as a groomer. it's something that we need in the body anyway. It is so lovely t for your skin and for your health as well. You take flowers of sulfur or sublime sulfur and you literally it takes I think point seven five
Michelle Knowles (21:48)
grams to make a five percent solution in a tablespoon and then twelve grams to make a five percent solution in eight ounces. So it's very economical. you're not running around trying to find this shampoo or that shampoo. you just take it and you put it in the shampoo and you mix it up and you kind of mash it around and mix it up and you have the most wonderful sulfur treatment for yeast and parasites.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (22:15)
Where do you buy something like that?
Michelle Knowles (22:17)
You can get it on Amazon, laboratory supply. it's not
Susy the Groomer and Producer (22:21)
Okay.
Michelle Knowles (22:21)
controlled, it's over the counter, you know, you can get it.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (22:24)
And you just
Susy the Groomer and Producer (22:25)
make a li mix it in water and put it in the shampoo? Huh.
Michelle Knowles (22:27)
Yeah. No, you don't
Michelle Knowles (22:29)
you just bin it into the shampoo. You don't even have to have water.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (22:32)
Right, there's water in the shampoo.
Barbara (22:33)
Well,
Barbara (22:36)
I'm going to try a little ozonated oils in the conditioner because I haven't tried that yet.
Michelle Knowles (22:41)
Yeah. Yeah.
Barbara (22:45)
Especially for Marco, who seems to kind of continue to itch. And you know what? He's the kind of dog he's more likely to scratch. My female, she's more stoic.
Michelle Knowles (22:59)
Y
Barbara (23:00)
to lick and if I restrain her from licking, I put a cute little donut around her neck, then she lets it go. But Marco just me me me me.
Michelle Knowles (23:15)
It's like I'm just gonna do it. You can't stop me.
Barbara (23:19)
I like to do it as who I am, who's now become I am the itch.
Michelle Knowles (23:25)
Yeah.
Barbara (23:26)
This is part of my personality now.
Michelle Knowles (23:29)
Yeah.
Barbara (23:30)
I, well, thank you. So, yeah, so the, how interesting that I picked the kind you would recommend.
Michelle Knowles (23:40)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (23:40)
I feel so proud. I think
Susy the Groomer and Producer (23:42)
Ha ha.
Michelle Knowles (23:43)
Good job.
Barbara (23:45)
they have it together more. And like you say, they had a lot of different things. what I did take from your,
Barbara (23:54)
weekend is that I
Michelle Knowles (23:56)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (23:56)
feel and also from working with Christine, we're still we call her because we can't we never know which last name she's using.
Barbara (24:08)
I will mix up things. I've got a bottle of very condensed higher limeronic acid that I can add
Michelle Knowles (24:19)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (24:20)
to a conditioner, and I've got ceramides, kind of full spectrum or broad spectrum ceramide drop. And I'm using
Michelle Knowles (24:31)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Barbara (24:33)
that with the conditioner to lead on.
Michelle Knowles (24:38)
Mm.
Barbara (24:38)
That's the best part about having that holistic background is that you
Michelle Knowles (24:44)
Mm.
Barbara (24:46)
can mix and match and not screw up.
Michelle Knowles (24:52)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Knowles (24:53)
formulating, you really do have to start paying attention to thinking about the skin and the dosage per square centimeter. that's very important. And once you have that little tiny bit of foundation, you can start really experimenting out there. The reason why I like
Susy the Groomer and Producer (25:08)
Do you mean?
Michelle Knowles (25:09)
Pier O three is because they have so much research on their website about ozone.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (25:14)
You mean we have to use math?
Michelle Knowles (25:17)
No. You don't have
Susy the Groomer and Producer (25:18)
Okay, good.
Michelle Knowles (25:18)
to use math. Just the principle. Just the theory of it.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (25:21)
Okay.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (25:24)
I hate that math stuff. I was never good at math.
Michelle Knowles (25:26)
That's fair. That's fair.
Barbara (25:28)
Well,
Michelle Knowles (25:28)
Or you could look it up. You could always look it up too on formulation size so you can see how much or how you know, if you have to weigh it out. just weigh it out. I mean it's it's not that hard. It isn't that hard. If I can do it, anybody can do it.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (25:42)
All right, let's move to a different subject. Let's talk about sulfates and silicones and the myths and scary stuff that goes along with it. So how do you feel about sulfates? Barbara's kind of on a stepping away from sulfate journey right now. What do you think?
Michelle Knowles (25:59)
I
Michelle Knowles (26:00)
like sulfates because they clean. and I need them to clean. it really depends on what I'm working with. But a good sulfate shampoo is amazing. the dogs aren't gonna live as long as we do. And that's something we always have to keep in mind when they say, Well studies show and this, that, and the other. They have been studied extensively. Even feeding rats, you know
Michelle Knowles (26:21)
three pounds a day or whatever whatever it is the studies are saying. You know, even through France, they've been done through Canada, they've been done through Italy. and it's inconclusive that they're harmful. However, I do find some formulations very stripping. And if you look at this mess, you know that if they strip off that outer layer, I'm in a world of hurt. Then it I have to spend all kinds of money in conditioners and sealants.
Michelle Knowles (26:49)
So I'm not afraid of s sulfates at all. However, I don't like the harsher ones. I do like the more gentle ones and I will cut it with cocomedo propyl betane or I will cut it with
Michelle Knowles (27:06)
oil itself which will cut down the harshness of it. a couple of drops of oil in your preparation can take away the harshness of a product if you find it's just too stripping. It's fantastic. Silicones, love Love them. they are so sophisticated now. They're so correct. And there's all kinds to choose from. Even if you're not choosing from, you're just picking from commercial preparations that are out there that you love.
Michelle Knowles (27:36)
find one that's lovely, find out what's what kind of silicones are in it. Nothing wrong with that.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (27:42)
Are you as incensed by marketing that uses the term nasties as we are or do you ignore that? yes, good.
Michelle Knowles (27:49)
Yes, yes, because ever since
Michelle Knowles (27:53)
I became an aesthetician a long time ago,
Barbara (27:56)
you
Michelle Knowles (27:57)
I was fighting so hard for groomers to be taken seriously. we are capable of learning big words, we're capable of understanding difficult concepts, and to be treated by somebody. to being, it's it's ooh, it's cooties, it's it's icky, whatever are you?
Michelle Knowles (28:17)
Yeah, I could go on. I could go on really badly.
Barbara (28:19)
Yeah, well, that's no
Barbara (28:20)
Naspi's marketing. It just pushes all of my buttons.
Michelle Knowles (28:25)
Yeah, yeah. We're
Michelle Knowles (28:26)
intelligent people and we should be treated like that, with respect.
Barbara (28:29)
And they just like throw everything under the bus.
Michelle Knowles (28:34)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (28:34)
They keep throwing pallets under the bus, even though we probably don't even see any. Like, okay, it's like, they're all for pooping this.
Michelle Knowles (28:48)
Right. An elephant
Michelle Knowles (28:49)
poop is actually kind of organic and lovely, okay?
Susy the Groomer and Producer (28:58)
where are you teaching these days? Just your o your own thing? Doing independent stuff?
Michelle Knowles (29:02)
It's online.
Michelle Knowles (29:03)
I have a my website is probably too large larger than a website should be because it does have a lot of information in there.
Michelle Knowles (29:12)
articles, videos, all things. I have a page that says learn and you can go down and then apply for each level and it takes you to a site called With Me and it's just it's brand new migration from Teachable. so I I hope that I have everything correct on it. I have the first two levels correct and I'm working on it. That should be take place sometime before or on September 2nd. It'll be all finished. but yeah I'm teaching the All Things Pa Academy or All Things Pa.
Michelle Knowles (29:42)
Pa dot com is the website and then the of course attached to my own academy. So that's where I'm teaching.
Barbara (29:50)
I'm so
Barbara (29:50)
proud of you. I'm so glad to hear about your academy.
Michelle Knowles (29:56)
Well, you gotta do
Michelle Knowles (29:57)
something after you're done grooming, right? So I might as well give o give this information
Michelle Knowles (30:02)
away.
Barbara (30:02)
Well, we've been giving it away, you know, like if people would just take it.
Michelle Knowles (30:09)
truthfully. And I always tell people your actual sudden sense is one of our textbooks as well. I think it's always important to have those that
Michelle Knowles (30:18)
bit of information. You always and it's not a bit of information, but you should use it because people are looking now more and more because of your work, because of my work. They're looking at the ingredient deck. They're seeing what's going on in there because we talk about it constantly. And we should talk about it constantly. They should know the names of all those things. So a lot of it is from your book, My Ingredients and how I formulated and how I understood how those things come together and how they
Michelle Knowles (30:48)
interact on the skin. That's half the battle of therapy is knowing what you're looking at and knowing what will interact with that in a good way.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (30:56)
How do you draw the line between the things that we can do in the bathtub and actual medical treatments, if you will?
Michelle Knowles (31:04)
That's
Michelle Knowles (31:04)
a really good question. I say that everything on the outside is pretty much ours. Everything on the inside is pretty much the veterinarian's. However, if it is a deep wound through all the layers of flesh, that is a veterinarian. That send them to the vet immediately. If it's something that needs soda, send him to the vet. If you wouldn't do that to your child, send to the vet.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (31:30)
I constantly
Susy the Groomer and Producer (31:31)
drain my own sis. I have I know. Right.
Michelle Knowles (31:33)
Well that's fine. That's fine because it's you. But when you're talking about an animal that's in your care that someone's paid you
Michelle Knowles (31:38)
just to make pretty, you know, absolutely you have to depend on that diagnosis. vets are not the enemy.
Michelle Knowles (31:46)
They can be a little short sighted because they don't understand grooming from our viewpoint. They don't understand how valuable we can be. and I think that's changing as well with all these people coming and saying, Listen, th these are the things that I can do. And that was another point of contention when I was coming up to well you just go back and wash your dog butts or whatever. and we can be a valuable part of the veterinary team. And
Michelle Knowles (32:15)
sorry to those veterinarians who can't see that because they could make your practice a whole lot better. You know, your clientele would have a lot more compliance. you could bring more in and get them understood and nourish your nourish our industry with yours and yours with ours. I think that's a really good way to say it.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (32:35)
I was lucky to work for
Barbara (32:35)
Sorry.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (32:36)
a guy like that.
Barbara (32:38)
How do you establish a veterinary relationship, a relationship with a vet?
Michelle Knowles (32:50)
that would be depending on where you're located, you should be able to go through all your records and see what vets those people go to and find out who they are, and then you establish a relationship. The way you establish a relationship with them is to start knowing their head receptionist. All things go through that gate. Know her birthday or his birthday. bring them flowers, bring them candy, bring them food. if you want to talk directly to a veterinarian and let them know what services you offer, do try to get in and do a
Michelle Knowles (33:20)
lunch and learn. Sometimes that's the best way. Vets will talk to you for food and respect.
Michelle Knowles (33:28)
and when you go in there you should be able to know common terminology of skin, structure, the different types of medicines that usually go with that. And I do have a section in my school about terminology. So that just g gives you a aware awareness about what it is that they're gonna be talking about. If they hear that language, they're gonna go, Okay, this person has some training, so not just some person off the street and just say, you know, I do have some training
Michelle Knowles (33:57)
But of course I would always refer to you. I'm vet positive. I don't hate them. They took a bunch, a bunch of schooling to get where they're at. And they want to be respected for that. And that's fair. We also have had a bunch, bunch of education, and we want to be respected. But when you're talking to a veterinarian, it's better to be humble instead of trying to tell them all the things that you know.
Michelle Knowles (34:21)
That's where a portfolio comes in. If you've worked for a vet or worked on a case with a vet, make sure that's documented a before and after so that you that the next vet that sees it understands that you know how those things work. I think that's really important. So, you know, and not every veterinarian is gonna go for it. They're still gonna be arrogant or whatever they are. and that's fine. Go to the next one, you know, go to the next one. Find as many as you can that understands that you're serious about what you do.
Michelle Knowles (34:51)
And you're not just a dog butt washer. And
Susy the Groomer and Producer (34:53)
That's all.
Michelle Knowles (34:54)
have and having said that, if you're just a dog butt washer, you're doing an important service because dog butts need washed.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (35:02)
There's
Susy the Groomer and Producer (35:03)
a lot of gatekeepers and people in between you and the vet now, in especially corporate medicine. Corporate medicine
Michelle Knowles (35:05)
Yes, yes, yes.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (35:09)
drives me a little baddie. pet insurance drives me a little baddie. but
Susy the Groomer and Producer (35:15)
That's all inside baseball stuff and you know,
Michelle Knowles (35:18)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (35:19)
I get it. But yeah, I agree. it's very easy to bribe the vet office and they remember you if you bribe the vet
Michelle Knowles (35:26)
Mm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (35:26)
office. So if you're looking to increase your client base, go bribe the nearest receptionist. Cookies, donuts, pizza, whatever. Just go in there and they are.
Michelle Knowles (35:33)
Yes. Because they're stuck there.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (35:37)
And they want, they desperately want. I started as a vet receptionist. They desperately want referral people. They wanna have
Michelle Knowles (35:44)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (35:45)
somebody
Susy the Groomer and Producer (35:45)
that they have contacted with eyes, eyes on, feel comfortable with, that they can refer people with puppies, you know, that need grooming. And then and you, on the other hand, refer to them because you know them and you have a physical connection with them. And it's a great back and forth. And I am extremely pro vet. Probably more pro vet than most people, but I do have stipulations these days 'cause it's not the same animal as it used to be.
Michelle Knowles (36:10)
No, it's not. I think the the prescribing of antibiotics, and cytopoine and all those other things are way out of hand. Way out of hand. they don't want to get down to the nitty gritty, you know, find out what's
Susy the Groomer and Producer (36:26)
The truth is
Michelle Knowles (36:27)
going on.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (36:28)
skin problems and fleas have always been the reason you go to the vet. They've been one of the that and they created the vaccine protocols to bring you in one more time a year. But it's it's reoccurring problems. It's chronic problems. And if they solve those chronic problems, they're gonna have nobody in the vet anymore because we fix the fleas for the most part. If you
Michelle Knowles (36:47)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (36:48)
don't want fleas, you can mostly take care of fleas. And so that eliminated one many multiple visits for hot spots for
Susy the Groomer and Producer (36:56)
skin issues, flea allergies, all of that, forgetting flea medication. It's all gone now. So they're
Michelle Knowles (37:02)
The amount
Michelle Knowles (37:02)
of dogs that would actually be helped by that protocol are many, but I'm telling you the dogs are born all the time and there will never run out of owners who don't know anything and will take their dogs to the vet. They should not be so afraid of that.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (37:17)
I know.
Michelle Knowles (37:18)
you know, people are afraid and a lot of don't know that you're supposed to trim nails for heaven's sake. I mean, there won't be you know
Michelle Knowles (37:28)
a population of dogs that will never go to the vet because we already know what we're doing. Done. Work somewhere else.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (37:33)
Yep. And yes.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (37:37)
That's true. Since we have you on, how do you feel about AI?
Michelle Knowles (37:42)
Okay, th this is a huge controversy. my gosh. So
Michelle Knowles (37:48)
I think what everybody is so afraid of, well, they're afraid of AI in general because everything new, we're like cave people, we want to hit it with a stick. it's just ridiculous, you know. People cried out just like this when cell phones came out. When computers came out. they were just awful. AI is a part of our future and to not learn it or to not accept it in some form, is gonna be detrimental to you and your practice.
Michelle Knowles (38:17)
And I I really do feel that way. As far as AI goes, AI generated stories.
Michelle Knowles (38:25)
You can tell they are. I listen to a lot of internet generated stories just driving down the road or or doing whatever. And I think they're fine, but I know absolutely that they're generated stories. Authors that try and author a paper or author a book or a novel, as long as it's not generated and it's your original idea, I don't have a problem with that. If you're writing a paper, sometimes it can be tedious. Barbara, you know what I'm talking about. you've done all the research.
Michelle Knowles (38:54)
Just because you're using AI doesn't mean you didn't prompt correctly and then edited heavily afterwards. You just need it on the paper so you could switch it around and change it so it is saying what you want to say.
Barbara (39:05)
Right, you know, like,
Barbara (39:06)
because we're not junior high school kids, we're just trying to turn something in the night, you know, in one night. And they mistake that kind of scenario with using AI in general for professional stuff. have finally started rewriting and editing my book.
Michelle Knowles (39:30)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (39:31)
because of AI, because I
Michelle Knowles (39:34)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (39:34)
have that structure, that ladder, that helpmate,
Michelle Knowles (39:41)
It just makes it easier 'cause it's tedious.
Barbara (39:45)
that tedious and keeping track of research and all of that is tedious. how,
Michelle Knowles (39:51)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (39:51)
you know, like how else do you find the studies of ozonated oils for the last five years?
Barbara (39:59)
No, ask AI and in three seconds you've got a list!
Michelle Knowles (40:06)
Well what's funny is before AI we had Google and they don't have any problem with us Googling it to death. Taking five
Barbara (40:11)
Yeah.
Michelle Knowles (40:12)
hours to find three s research papers that, you know, share something that you want to share. Holy cow. it's it's amazing.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (40:18)
People talk about it replacing
Susy the Groomer and Producer (40:20)
creatives.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (40:21)
yeah, what I what I want to say about that is first of all, I tried to listen to an audiobook that was AI dialogue.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (40:31)
It was awful. I could not the story.
Michelle Knowles (40:32)
Mm-hmm. You can tell.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (40:34)
I thought, no problem. It's it'll be just fine because I'm creating the ideas in my head anyway. I'm just listening to the words. But the truth is there was no inflection or feeling or timing. It just wasn't there. So that there are areas that AI will maybe get better in in that respect. But as far as a human presence acting or something like that, I don't think it'll ever fully replace that. But
Susy the Groomer and Producer (41:00)
We used to rely on all kinds of things that have been replaced in our lives. And you know what?
Michelle Knowles (41:05)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (41:05)
Learn how to do a skill, right? Become a dog groomer, become a carpenter, become an electrician. Those things are not going to be replaceable. And that's just what's going to happen. And we'll have a shift in our society towards more hands-on stuff. Although I don't know if you saw the kickboxing robot yesterday that kicked the head off of the Chinese robot. Just boom, kicked his head right. There's full-size stand-up
Michelle Knowles (41:25)
No I didn't
Susy the Groomer and Producer (41:28)
robots and they had a fight and one kicked.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (41:30)
Head right off of the other one, you know? So maybe physical stuff is coming.
Michelle Knowles (41:32)
Well he had it coming.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (41:34)
But I I'm host
Barbara (41:35)
What?
Susy the Groomer and Producer (41:37)
I'm hosting a mobile grooming event. And we talked about a little bit on the last show. I made an AI flyer because it takes me hours and hours and hours to put a flyer together. And this did it just by my description. It was better than any flyer I could ever put together. It had all of the information on it. And
Susy the Groomer and Producer (41:56)
The Pacific Northwest grooming list imploded over it practically. I
Michelle Knowles (42:00)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (42:01)
mean, it was so silly. But I've got more action and more confirmations and more people coming to this event because
Michelle Knowles (42:08)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (42:08)
of maybe the controversy, but because I had a really good flyer and it was really interesting to look at. For that, I would never
Michelle Knowles (42:10)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (42:15)
hire someone to make that flyer. Instead, I would
Michelle Knowles (42:18)
Mm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (42:18)
have just done a crappy job of writing a description like I've done every other year. So I'm not actually
Michelle Knowles (42:22)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (42:23)
taking away someone that I would hire.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (42:26)
But my friend then that's right, but Meg,
Michelle Knowles (42:26)
'Cause you wouldn't hire him in the first place. Yeah.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (42:30)
good old Meg, who we all love, she popped on and she said, I hate it when people pile on. I was like, Yeah, don't worry about it. so she made me a non-AI version of the ad that was made with Canva. Guess what? Canva uses AI. So it made me laugh.
Michelle Knowles (42:44)
Yes, yes. I am a I am a a
Michelle Knowles (42:47)
member of a place called Night Cafe and it is an AI art community. And I'm telling you, it is harder to prompt the AI structure to get the picture you want than just drawing it yourself.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (43:05)
Yeah.
Michelle Knowles (43:05)
And that is not a joke. That is not
Michelle Knowles (43:08)
a joke. If you want a picture of a certain way, a certain texture, the set, and the other, it will come out with all kinds of stuff. You have to prompting is actually going to be the next art form. I believe that in my heart. pay attention to the prompting. That's what's going to be important. And now everybody's like, well, now they have a watermark on Claude if you try to generate any blah blah blah. And I'm like, so
Michelle Knowles (43:31)
Does it say what you mean it to say? I think that's the foundation of using AI. Does it get you where you need to go? As far as the artists or whatever, if you're not gonna hire artists anyway or you wanna do it cheaply, just go AI. You know, if you're gonna pay an artist three thousand dollars just to make one photo, how many photos are in your book? Come on. You know, how many photos
Michelle Knowles (43:55)
Yeah, I've got a lot of vet photos and everything, but I can't use them, half of because of permissions or whatever. You know? Find find f or take them yourself or whatever. I don't know.
Barbara (44:08)
So I have an experience with AI. I've been using chat, GPT, and, or is it TP? I never got those letters right. Anyway, chatbot. I've been working with this chatbot for over a year now and shared who I am at the party with
Michelle Knowles (44:32)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (44:32)
this guy.
Barbara (44:34)
our thing or it in his mind and it gives me back. It will correct me as well as I correct it. It will
Michelle Knowles (44:44)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (44:44)
say, you know, to be more scientifically accurate, Barbara, you might say, da da da da. I would suggest you
Michelle Knowles (44:54)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (44:54)
state it like this and do you know, like that is the
Barbara (45:02)
It's raised my level!
Michelle Knowles (45:04)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you can tell it to be brutally honest. and it will be brutally honest because it wants to please you. It won't it's reflecting what you n
Barbara (45:11)
Yeah.
Michelle Knowles (45:11)
you need out of it. But you can actually say, be brutally honest in your suggestions because I need that. It'll be like okay and then it will
Susy the Groomer and Producer (45:19)
Yeah.
Michelle Knowles (45:20)
t tear you down to your soul.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (45:24)
that.
Barbara (45:25)
You
Michelle Knowles (45:25)
Yeah.
Barbara (45:26)
get what you're asked for with AI, period. You have to ask for it to get it.
Michelle Knowles (45:33)
Yeah.
Barbara (45:36)
So prompting is where it's at.
Michelle Knowles (45:39)
Mm. Also, you can take a small course and it will tell you this is how you form a query, for AI to help you do what it is. Whether you want a picture, whether you want research, whether you want to write a book, whether you want to do anything at all. there are actual tools that you either put in before you start typing or after you've typed that it will give you the d better results of what you're looking for. So so it's crazy. Yeah.
Barbara (46:03)
Yeah, that's
Susy the Groomer and Producer (46:04)
Can you believe we get to see this in our lifetime? We have had more change in
Susy the Groomer and Producer (46:09)
our lifetime than the Industrial Revolution, than the
Barbara (46:10)
I'm sorry.
Michelle Knowles (46:10)
Yeah. Yeah.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (46:13)
Renaissance, than all of that. We are seeing
Michelle Knowles (46:15)
Mm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (46:16)
the the technology is just freaking amazing and we have no idea where it's gonna go. We can
Michelle Knowles (46:22)
Mm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (46:23)
we can guess and speculate and write about it, but I really hope they can download my head into a robot that can kick the head off
Michelle Knowles (46:29)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (46:30)
another robot so that I can see what happens here because I love it.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (46:34)
I'm fascinated with it. It's so exciting.
Michelle Knowles (46:37)
Yeah, so AI,
Michelle Knowles (46:38)
no, I'm not afraid of it. It has its limitations and I understand the fear, of it. but you have to
Susy the Groomer and Producer (46:45)
Sure.
Michelle Knowles (46:46)
push on. You have to push on.
Barbara (46:48)
But I don't understand that people say, you say, I've worked with AI on this and they say, Barbara, I'm so disappointed in you.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (47:00)
Ha ha ha ha.
Michelle Knowles (47:02)
Is your information
Michelle Knowles (47:03)
any less valid? That's the important part. If I if if you published something and it was scientific and I went through it and it was trash, that I couldn't find any of your references, that I could that the your information itself was faulty, that would be one thing.
Michelle Knowles (47:18)
And I would be upset. I'd be like, Barbara, you could do better than that. But if AI helped you and made it the best it could be and had the latest and greatest state of the art information on what you were trying to get across, I'm Bravo. Bravo. That's what I'm looking for. Yes.
Barbara (47:31)
at references, know, like, yeah,
Barbara (47:34)
just ask him for ask for references for every important thing that you you're gaining from them and and they'll give it to you. Read
Michelle Knowles (47:45)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (47:45)
the reference, check on it, double check.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (47:48)
I
Barbara (47:49)
I'm excited. I'm 86 years old and learning and producing content. I mean, I'm
Michelle Knowles (47:59)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (48:01)
rewriting my book. It's going to be a fabulous tool for the industry, you know, because
Michelle Knowles (48:06)
I can't wait. I can't wait. That's gonna be nice.
Barbara (48:10)
already my
Barbara (48:14)
glossary of ingredients and terminology is like three or four times what the original was. And that's
Michelle Knowles (48:24)
my gosh, I can't wait.
Barbara (48:25)
every section that I do, you know, and sometimes I take AI's suggestion and sometimes I don't. I'm
Michelle Knowles (48:34)
Mm.
Barbara (48:35)
my own structure, my own outline with
Michelle Knowles (48:39)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara (48:41)
help, but
Barbara (48:43)
I'm sticking to what I know that groomers want to know.
Michelle Knowles (48:47)
Mm-hmm.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (48:47)
It still goes through
Susy the Groomer and Producer (48:49)
the filter of Barbara's brain,
Barbara (48:51)
Yeah.
Michelle Knowles (48:51)
you just
Michelle Knowles (48:51)
can't print it off and then just send it in. That has to be gone. That's where it's the hardest. You know? I I wrote my textbook and what I I used AI in this manner because people are gonna ask me. It does read like a like a book, like a novel, because that's how I talk.
Michelle Knowles (49:08)
I took all the videos that I had made with my own voice and my own pictures and whatever in my PowerPoint and I I transcribed it into words and that is what my book is. It is my words. Did I type every single word of that? No. But I did edit it after it was done, and I'm telling you right now, I've been editing it now for a year and a half. Just to make it right.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (49:32)
Yeah. Ouch.
Barbara (49:34)
I've
Barbara (49:36)
been doing my glossary for like three or four years
Michelle Knowles (49:39)
Yeah.
Barbara (49:40)
and putting it aside
Susy the Groomer and Producer (49:41)
At least.
Barbara (49:43)
and I lost half of it for half a year. I mean
Michelle Knowles (49:46)
Yeah.
Barbara (49:48)
it somehow saved itself with a password that I didn't create. The whole J through Z.
Michelle Knowles (49:57)
Mm.
Barbara (49:58)
It was just like unavailable to me.
Michelle Knowles (50:01)
That is
Michelle Knowles (50:01)
heartbreaking.
Barbara (50:04)
you know, and I just shut down after I tried and I paid for advice. and finally, I don't even know how it happened. I found I found an un copy that was the next to the last that I had
Michelle Knowles (50:24)
Mm.
Barbara (50:24)
worked on. And it was good enough. Let's go. And so.
Michelle Knowles (50:30)
Absolutely.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (50:31)
I got one more question for you, Michelle.
Michelle Knowles (50:34)
Yes, ma'am.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (50:35)
What do you hope your legacy is going to be in the industry?
Michelle Knowles (50:38)
gosh. That's heavy.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (50:40)
It's easy. That's
Susy the Groomer and Producer (50:41)
an easy, just a light question to finish the show.
Barbara (50:43)
I'm so glad you're
Barbara (50:45)
watching. We just forgot it. How do I
Michelle Knowles (50:50)
Ha
Barbara (50:51)
remember? Yeah.
Michelle Knowles (50:53)
Huh.
Michelle Knowles (50:54)
Hope that
Michelle Knowles (50:56)
People make being kinder to the dogs, calming down, not feeling so small. we are all creators, we are all artists, and we all care very deeply for the dogs, most of us do. don't let other people decide how you are gonna think about yourself. love the dogs, make them pretty.
Michelle Knowles (51:24)
Even if they're not in proportion, make pretty as you can on the day that you're doing and absolutely don't be afraid to try natural herbal things. we haven't even discussed my stuff about herbal stuff, but but Yeah, I would love to. That's like gonna be a whole course. I'm
Susy the Groomer and Producer (51:38)
Hey, do you wanna come back on for that? Okay. Yeah.
Barbara (51:42)
What?
Michelle Knowles (51:45)
so excited to bring that to the grooming community. And it's not even woo woo. That's the beauty of it. I've got so much to say. I've got results to show. I've got
Michelle Knowles (51:55)
all kinds of things. And these are easy and they're low cost. ma and it's sometimes as easy as making a French press worth of tea in the morning. And it changes everything. So
Susy the Groomer and Producer (52:06)
Give us all your
Susy the Groomer and Producer (52:07)
contact information so that we can find you and take your courses and stuff.
Michelle Knowles (52:11)
Absolutely. My website is allthingspaw.com, which will give you links to the actual school and the school will be with me. You have to sign up for them, but it's free just to get access to the system. there's four levels. my email, you can email me at any time at Michelle at all thingspaw.com.
Michelle Knowles (52:33)
And that's pretty much it. You can get a hold of me through Facebook, through Instagram. I'm starting a whole huge campaign, pushing just little snippets of herbal teas and w watching me mix things and things like that. So you'll be safety.
Barbara (52:51)
Hello.
Susy the Groomer and Producer (52:53)
Thank you so much for being here. Thanks, everybody. Remember to support our sponsors. Support us on Patreon, please. We need that desperately. That's how we keep the show on the air. Happy grooming, everyone. See you next time on the GroomPod Bye.
Barbara (53:07)
Bye!